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By Cly! Host of "The 4/20 Lounge"!

21

Clean Controversy, why not CELEBRATE!

Shouts to the Purple Kush,

I was on twitter, early evening 2 days ago and noticed a trend regarding Slim Thug and some statements he'd made to Starrene Rhett, regarding Black Women, Slim Thug's Blog via Vibe.com! Read this before you continue! 

Ok, so we have to talk about this for at least a minute. Houston's Boss Hog Thugga is sayin' that we all need to step it up in general with respect to our ways of thinking, especially regarding the standards we put against each other as black men and women. He even goes as far as to refer to white women as being generally more submissive, less materialistic and typically more willing to cook and clean, glorifying these qualities that make up the "best" relationship partners, at least for him.

The high maintenance "housewife"shit needs to stop, especially seeing as many of these standards are kept in low income relationships. Why the fuck are you trying to get a shopping spree out of somebody with one pair of sneakers? I agree with Slim Thug to a degree, black women need to step off the part of our recent culture that expects every man to have certain assets to be qualified to date them. Its only right to have HIGH STANDARDS, however, the main base of these standards can't always be MONETARY. Furthermore, I have to agree that my general conclusion of the argument of black contemporary woman vs. the old-fashioned black woman is; that the contemporary woman asks for more and expects to have less obligations than they used to, less of that ride or die kinda girl. Everybody can't live rich!

I just wanted to drop that gem for those of us that want to argue this, because I'm more than open to doing so. The uproar this shit caused is healthy and I think anybody offended or excited by what Slim Thug was saying should become a FAN of his, just to promote HEALTHY CONTROVERSY! I'd rather have somebody say something that's offensive, but somewhat thought out, to stir up some buzz. It'd be a lot better than this "so and so got punched" bullshit that I try to draw some kind of entertainment from, as i try to get the time back that i wasted reading about it...

Pass That...Wahh!

21 comments:

katryna said...

1st off.. i'm kinda #dead at the chick with the watermelon... smh lol. but what i think slim thug is forgetting is that for a LONG TIME black women carried the burden of the entire family from slavery on. and by this point, yes it has created a generation of bitter, self entitled women. and they are skeptical of black men who historically have been absent towards their responsibilities, therefore creating the idea of, "what can this man do for ME."and black men that are continuing the cycle of doing next to nothing just enforce the view points of black women who think this way...

however, saying white women are different is a joke. the type of changes he wants to see in "black women" have nothing to do with race. those changes come as socio-economic lines are crossed, not racial. he's talking about the ignorance of "black" society, but isn't it equally as ignorant to relate money to white people? he is carrying some of that ghetto mentality around himself it seems...

i could go on for days on this... lol... dueces.

June 14, 2010 at 10:37 AM
Katie said...

i agree with katryna that it has little to nothing to do with race and much more to do with mentality. and as a white woman, i was offended. after reading between the lines of what slim was saying, its like he was saying white women arent opinionated and are only good for cooking and cleaning? i feel as though women, generally, should be independent but also bring what they can, and should to the table. our generation has taken relationships to a level of disregard and disrespect - making it about cuffing, money, status rather than feelings, trust and honesty for one another. people have their preferences of who they date and why theyre attracted, as far as im concerned it has nothing to do with race. yes i was brought up not to see color, and im sorry for those who have not been brought up to be so colorblind.

June 14, 2010 at 3:29 PM
Unknown said...

I agree this is healthy controversy and I'm happy to see all people discussing this topic. However, When generalizations are made you always risk crossing over into dangerous territory. For most Black women it's not so much about money as it is stability and money is as physical as stability can get. Relationships are about teamwork and partnership and if you're with someone that isn't putting in the same amount of effort (emotionally and monetarily)then it's not a healthy relationship and we've all been there. I understand his frustration. We have so many Black men out there that are locked up and on the streets that it puts pressure on Black men to be everything to everybody and it's not fair. Slim Thug I see where you're coming from but if you're expecting a housewife most black women aren't havin' it...not because we're shallow but because we want a committed partner.

June 14, 2010 at 3:40 PM
Anonymous said...

First off as a man I am not gonna leave my man Slim Thug out here alone even though I dont agree that all white women are submissive just like i dont believe that all black women, excuse my language are "bitches." But from experience, the majority of white women are willing to be a little bit more understanding of a man's needs and wants. As a black man, I love my black women and there is nothing out there in my opinion that can stand up against you all. Black women are strong figures in this world which i agree with Katryna on about yall carrying the burden from the slavery days but what you women have to realize is that those days are over. Our biggest issue with each other isnt the money, cars, clothes, etc. but our unity. WHERE THE FUCK IS THE UNITY??? A black woman is quick to judge us before you even know us or our status because like my man Slim Thug said your standards are too high. Always looking for Mr. Perfect, well sorry sweetie that guy was never here therefore he doesn't fucking EXIST.

I mean come on look at your girl Chilli. As attractive and sophisticated as that woman is why is she just like millions of other black women ALONE??? Dont worry i'll wait...............Exactly that is why black men tend to lean towards our white women because we're not putting up with the bullshit. Yes you do have your fiesty white women but trust me at the end of the day they make sure their man is good. Thats why we love em and we'll do anything for them. Black women on the other hand have too many mood swings and hang ups for us as far as im concerned. My beautiful black women listen to me, if we can get that unity amongst each other, that love, support, trust, and I emphasize support we will never have this problem.............and im done, that is all..........................

June 14, 2010 at 6:59 PM
dfields said...

i think the controversy at hand is ridiculous. men are just as shallow as these FEW gold diggin women. Men constantly search for the woman with the biggest butt or bust. It is portrayed in music, movies and other areas of pop culture. I do agree with katie women do have their own minds but if were talking in terms of one sided thinking we have to look at both men and women in total. Us as a society have our morals and values mixed up wanting someone soley on there features or how big their wallet is, is morally wrong, but to pin point just women in the ethical situation is the pot calling the kettle black.

June 14, 2010 at 10:10 PM
Anonymous said...

He's partly righty in that black women do have that attitude where it seems that they wanna be taken care of but what about the dudes that allow this to happen just to get sum pussy? The media and television also play a role in influencing people on how a relationship should work. Glamourizing the need to be with a man with money just so they can shop all day and not really express their love besides in the bedroom isn't "cute". We've all gotta take responsibility in how alot of our people are basically programmed into fitting these certain stereotypes and as a result learn how to raise our children not become that type of person. Television is the third parent whether you kno it or not, and it seems that the internet is rapidly becoming the fourth. We're kings and queens, let's stop this "gettin money" lifestyle and learn how to live for self.

June 14, 2010 at 10:18 PM
pinx said...

I agree wholeheartedly with Katie & Katryna...at the end of the day...it has nothing to do with race: I feel as though the fact of the matter is that some men don't challenge THEMSELVES enough to want a woman that is intellegent, strong-willed, independent, etc. because they feel intimidated. Conveniently enough, there are women out there who are submissive and would rather go through the motions if they feel that will bring them emotional/monetary security....they get comfortable with these type of women, and when they are finally confronted with one that will not tolerate their foolishness they automatically want to write it off as us having an attitude.

Bottom line...all debates like this, are based off of a thousand double standards thanks to our society. Black women may seem bitter because we're tired of always having to defend our case on why we deserve respect...there's nothing wrong w/ cooking, cleaning, and providing whatever for our men, but it should be done out of love, not servitude...Fin.

LoL oh yea and i'm #dead on that watermelon pic too!! smh

June 14, 2010 at 10:18 PM
Vania said...

People need to realize that this is not a black and white thing. Unfairly, all black women have been labeled as being materialistic, shallow, etc (and whatever other reasons black men think of to justify dating out of their race). It is not just black women who want a man with something to offer, its women period. I think the underlying issue that people are failing to realize is maybe todays black man has such intense feelings of inadequacy that are stemmed from their lack of substance and ability to provide, that they persecute any woman that asks for what they know, they can't give.

June 14, 2010 at 11:09 PM
Cly! Host of "The 4/20 Lounge"! said...

I'm in that mode to respond to all this. Late night move. Found out there's a FREE DRAKE CONCERT today IN MANHATTAN! Lookin to get some good footage and put up a blog about the show. Got a couple dope photographers on deck to ride with me, hit me if you wanna meet up out there!

http://www.papermag.com/2010/06/tell_us_why_you_wish_you_still.php

SHOUTS TO PAPER MAG

June 15, 2010 at 12:40 AM
Katie said...

vania, why should black men have to justify dating out of their race?

June 15, 2010 at 1:03 AM
Cly! Host of "The 4/20 Lounge"! said...

Ok so, I agree with a lot and i disagree with a lot up to this point. I'm not even about to handle all this in one comment, and shouts to my love with the WATERMELON! :)

What i think the problem is, is that the dominating culture of our young black women in america has successfully assisted in confusing them by establishing an ideal man that is composed of factors that don't typically make a cohesive unit.

We have women that only want men with a thug demeanor, but don't like what comes with it. We have women that look for hustlers, but don't stick by them when they go to jail, and even worse, support and live off the lifestyle rather than pushing for alternatives to be pursued.

For many black women their ideal man is quite easily passed up as the only brighter highlight in their day, aside from turning a man down, is reiterating the story to friends, or to their man to make him feel special :/. Don't lie...you've done it.

Men are going to want to try something different, and with respect to Katie's point, this is why it's pointless to be colorblind. People want their stats! Everybody wants to take credit for the positive impacts they have, and in most cases, I believe the negatives should shine as well. If the stats show that 5% more black men are marrying white women every 10 years, I believe that should be front page news!

How else is there going to be a CHANGE. All of us seem to agree that a change is needed!

I get Katryna's point that black men have also brought much of the blame on themselves, but i'm not a believer in the theory of "hereditary anger". The angry overburdened slaves of the past can't pass their anger to their kin 3 generations later, especially if the anger is coming off to black men ironically lol, the bitter aura needs to pass.

People are naturally compelled to want companions, and making this harder for each other is nothing but a hinderance to attaining the UNITY that we really do need to make the necessary advances that will kill some of the negative stereotypes around men and women. Shouts to smoove on that...good point

Passin it on that note...

June 15, 2010 at 3:22 AM
Cly! Host of "The 4/20 Lounge"! said...

Living for SELF is the cause of this type of thinking for the most part, to reference that ANONYMOUS comment. If we were living in a culture that was grounded on taking care of each other, many of the issues relevant to men and women taking care of each other wouldn't be in question.

June 15, 2010 at 3:30 AM
Cly! Host of "The 4/20 Lounge"! said...

Vania just went crazy. Firstly i don't think even Slim Thug could be misinterpreted into sounding like he said "all black women have been labeled as being materialistic, shallow, etc (and whatever other reasons black men think of to justify dating out of their race)".

Nobody said that, or implied anything like that. However, many black women are materialistic and shallow, and its often out of laziness and the lack of ambition i'm seeing associated with black men in this convo. The same woman who can't boil water nowadays wants Lobster and Shrimp.

Some women want to improve themselves, to justify their high standards, and those who do so, deserve a man who meets those high standards. However, the improvement doesn't stop at practical needs. Being successful, cooking, and cleaning doesn't guarantee a successful relationship. Many black women see a man expressing disdain with their attitudes and allow the pride to destroy a relationship, in opposition of compromise.

This reference to black men's "foolishness" can't be ignored either, shout to Vania cuz I'm about to go in. Just as i say slavery pains can't carry over into our relationships, your obviously biased view of the black man shouldn't carry over into your future judgement of him. Black women are incredible, but even the nurturing, strong-minded, queen that every man wants, can often come across as approaching their relationship with a man with too much aggression, no man wants to feel like he battles for dominance with his woman in a relationship.

We're in a culture where I see women don't trust their men, but bare with it as they accept a common idea that we're all dogs, if that's the case it's only a matter of time before black women make a trend of interracial relationships, though it's not extremely common around me. Maybe that's what we need though, then we can all be part of one big ass mixed race! Might make unity that much more attainable :), but is the loss of culture worth it to avoid taking the right steps to make our relationships work?

By the way...i can't front, my black youth out here have a very skewered perspective on what being a man is. The media steers our men to reach for the stars, but walk to the corner store...then go back home, twist up, and keep reaching once you get a lil higher...then "get money". The shit is stupid and we need to get it together as a whole. *see the blog about the RECESSION*

The wrong things are cool. What's common has become what's cool, with a mix of uncommon possessions. Yet, the way this mix is glorified, makes it desirable, to a point that some consider it ambitious to even pursue it.
Gangstas with a little bit of money are put on grand scales and made to look like they spend their days and nights surrounded by voluptuous women, counting money they made from selling blow :/, as they bask in the ambiance of their own street credibility. That shit sounds stupid when i say it like that, and if you'd call yourself an active member of the black community, you know somebody that wants to be just like my description...People gotta do better in general.

I've never dated a white woman, so It's hard to comment on their tendencies vs black women though, I'm doing my best to represent for those I'm able to speak for confidently though.

June 15, 2010 at 3:54 AM
DJ PM! Host/DJ of "The 4/20 Lounge" said...

I think everyone is being straight forward when this isn't a straight forward issue. This issue depends on many different things. Aspects like upbringing, financial status, influence; all of that has a role in forming a person's and in this case a woman's personality. For instance, aristocrats and royalty, the upper class, teaches their women to support their men at all costs. No matter what the man says, he is right, and the woman stays in the whole cooking, cleaning and tending to the children role. Very old fashioned lifestyle. The new school however, also known as the middle class working woman or industry professional take a whole different approach to their men. Their men need to earn their support, they need to show that they are willing to grind and work to make ends meet. I agree with this. At the end of the day, if we are bums we should be treated as such but if we are grinding then we deserve a backbone of support from our woman. That being said, now we have the last type of woman. The woman that thinks she is owed the world. For God knows what reason this woman puts herself on a pedestal and by doing such she feels that the man must buy or as she see's it earn her respect in the form of gifts and "general upkeep". This "brand" of woman is to me, better described as A GOLD DIGGER. We don't like gold diggers, so for me a gold digger is a waste of time. I shouldn't have to buy you shit. If you see the hunger and the hustle in my eyes, support me, through both good and bad. If you can't....well......Don't Get Mad at Me Cuz I'm on to the NEXT!

June 15, 2010 at 3:59 AM
Anonymous said...

What slim thug needs to understand is that the black woman feels unappreciated. The black man may want a submissive woman, a woman who is willing to cookand clean and that is all fine and dandy n shit. HOWEVER!

In the pass, black women had no trouble with being the ones to hold down the household, because not only was she treated like a Queen by her children but she was seen as a GODDESS by the men.

The black woman is forced to but up a guard in hopes to gain respect. How can the black woman be submissive and "Would you like another glass of Kool-Aid dear?" when she turns on the radio and is being called more than just a Bitch, more than just a hoe. She is being called things so vulgar that she has to grab a fucking dictionary to understand what the BLACK MAN is saying about her. ABOUT HIS WOMEN!

So no, black woman should not be submissive until she is once again appreciated. The black woman is NOT completely innocent. What she does sometimes is try to fit the MOLD of what her black man says she is. So she becomes the hoe, the bitch, etc. to be exactly what it seems that he wants from her.

BLACK WOMEN need to get it together and so do BLACK MEN! ya dig?

but in the mean time, THIS BLACK WOMAN is gonna looovvee her a BLACK WOMAN ;-) Lol.

A woman WILL BE A gold digger as long as this what black man say they want. You think you don't but when you glorify her materialistic addiction, what else do you want from her? A BLACK WOMAN's EGO is HUGE believe it or not. Tell her that she's beautiful without the Gucci, tell her she doesn't need to buy Victoria Secrets, tell her you want to see ALL OF HER. Don't encourage the behavior. The black woman will be submissive as long as she has a reason to be.

THE BLACK WOMAN HAS NO REASON TO SUBMIT.

Love ya Cly! Great POST YO

June 15, 2010 at 8:47 AM
Tiara 'SoCoBROWN' Brown said...

You may be able to attribute these behaviors of these black women, in which Slim was previously or currently involved with, to their childhood. It is hard to play a role that is expected of you, if you've never seen it. I was raised by both my mother and father, and thus I know how a relationship should work. Yes, my mother stills cooks and cleans for my father, and their 26 year anniversary is June 30! (Shout out to my parents!) HOWEVER my father is a MAN... not some hood who got rich and thinks his shit don't stink. From my parents, I have learned about compromise. SLIM... get your ignorant head out the clouds and pay attention. YOU ARE WHAT YOU ATTRACT. Nigga if your mind set isn't of the caliber of women you WANT to attract... all you'e going to get is your likeness in female form. #whycan'tyoubagbetterEDUCATEDBLACKwomen?
upgrade yourself my G.

BTW, women are women... maybe just the white women, he is fucking with, are better manipulators. :) he'll understand sooner or later... sooner hopefully... it will cost him a lot less. lol

As for the conventional black woman vs. traditional black woman, I'm in accord with the author. A good number of Modern black women don't do shit for men. Growing up, I hated having to cook and clean, but my mother had a method to her madness. Until coming to Howard University, I had never met a black woman that didn't at least know how to cook. Today's black woman needs to understand her position. Not saying that we should be doormats, but via watching my mother, you'd be surprised as to how much you can gain by not trying to wear the pants in the relationship and/or making high maintenance and high priced demands, especially when they aren't deserved and you can't do that shit for yourselves.

As for a solution... you know black people... we could talk about this all day but no one is really into finding any real solutions and putting them into affect. People have to want to change. They need to be enlightened to begin with, so that they can be aware of themselves and stop living in a fucking box. Furthermore, women, in general, need to stop using their body as a way to equate and communicate your "value". More importantly, you need to know you are valued.

Everyone should read Yogi Ramacharaka "14 Lessons"

June 15, 2010 at 9:01 AM
LIT_APOC said...

I have an idea on how we can ALL give our opinion. I'll be in touch...

June 15, 2010 at 10:48 AM
Vania said...

I understand that its not "right" to pass on the burden of what happened to our ancestors into present time in regards to relationships, etc; however, we need to realize that it is not as simple as just getting over it. There has been a systematic, institutionalized destruction of the black identity that has taken place for decades. Slavery or no slavery damage is done, and it will take a lot to move on from this place of hurt. However, its a slow process. I agree with HrshReality , black women are under valued and not appreciated. As hard as it is for me to write this, society (aka white america that controls everything)has placed the black woman at the bottom of the totem pole. Perhaps thats why many black men feel the way they do about their relationships with black women. Perhaps that is why so many black men date white women for all the wrong reasons... for that "white approval" to show they are worthy of "white" love which apparently isnt the same or convenient as it would be from a black woman.

I once had a black man sit down and tell me that he would rather a white woman on his arm any day over a black woman, because white women are "a good look". He went on further to let me know that the majority of black men feel the same, which is why when so many black men become successful they move on up or "upgrade" to white woman because now they will appeal to them more. So question, who are really the gold diggers and if so, who actually "gains" something from "gold digging" cause in my experience, the "black golddiggers" have nothing to show except for that unfair title and the others get a nice pedestal and ring.

June 16, 2010 at 12:44 AM
Vania said...

In response to Cly ... chicks want a Tupac with a degree lmao

June 16, 2010 at 12:47 AM
Cly! Host of "The 4/20 Lounge"! said...

Ok so shadel, you can't tell me that the big suit white guy controlling what substance of music gets thru the waves is responsible for our black women being bitter, and according to what you're implying, purposely stepping back from the more nurturing ways "black men" seem to find them lacking in.

We're all grown here, if you can't handle the radio, you shouldn't be allowed to use it. As far as the "this bitch, that ho" trend in music, its been here forever, there are more than enough representations to the contrary for black women to feel like the strong goddesses they long to be treated as. Furthermore, I can almost guarantee that black women request most of the songs that portray them in that negative light. I know i sound like I'm bashing, but real talk is real talk.

I don't mean to say all is lost between black men and women, because that would be stupid. However I'd like to see black men and women become the forerunners in ending this 50% divorce rate situation in our country. Show some character and integrity, and stop treating marriage like jobs, jump into anything for the signing bonus, and actually make it last.

Its a lot to ask....but it would be a big step

June 16, 2010 at 3:29 AM
Cly! Host of "The 4/20 Lounge"! said...

As for gold-diggers, those are women I consider close to being lost causes, depending on how deep they're willing to dig for that shine...it's foul. It only encourages the careless lifestyles that keep us as black men from making progress as a whole.

I'm goin' str8 boondocks mode for a second. *riley voice* Why a nigga gotta buy you all this extra shit? How a nigga gonn pay da bills? How a nigga gonna know how to treat a real lady, if bitches like you out here making it hard to tell? How niggaz supposed to wanna spend money on women, when its going to fuckin nothin?!

Its more than just wasting a man's money, women cause the experiences that fuel the fire to these "fuck bitches, get money" movements.
Movements are what they become, built to create that outer shell around men, without them having to feel that betrayal. The cost outweighs the benefit in my opinion, still.

June 16, 2010 at 3:48 AM

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